OOP Re: Mono

Dzonatas dzonatas at dzonux.net
Thu Jan 31 10:03:45 PST 2008

Mark Meijer wrote:
> On 31/01/2008, Lawson English <lenglish5 at cox.net> wrote:
>> Dzonatas wrote:
>>> A full OOP does not use bytecode.
>> What does SmallTalk use?
> Or Java, or C#, or managed C++, or Ruby, or Perl 6, or Python, or
> Squeak, or Lisp, or Io, or Self...

Those are subsets of OOP, as they mainly are a language that provides a 
subset of OOP functionality.  The language itself is flat. Flat as in a 
flat-file database. Just because one can define classes and use 
"object.method" call syntax does not denote a language as full OOP. In 
fact, to have full OOP, one does not even need any of those languages.

> How does using bytecode have anything to do with whether a language
> supports full OOP or not?

Because...  OOP goes beyond the language itself. OOP evolves the 
environment. There are several ways to use a language that has class 
definition, but none offer intrinsic control of the environment.  One 
can have a language/script/diagram/etc based just on available methods 
from the environment and not a single bytecode needs to be encountered.

When bytecodes are defined, then the ability to dynamically use the 
methods of the environment become limited to just those bytecodes.  Full 
OOP require dynamic compilers that use no bytecode basis. That doesn't 
mean that bytecode won't exist at another level in the OOP environment.

> And here's another question... Is Dzonatas a troll? To wit, this is
> the guy who also objected to using the words parent and child in OO
> terminology... Which is his right, of course. But one starts to
> wonder...

Are you a troll for this next bit?

Mark Meijer wrote:
> To quote RMS:
> "It is a bad thing to use the term "intellectual property"
> anywhere.The mere use of that term carried a harmful confusion:
> namely,that copyright law, patent law, trademark law, and various
> other laws are similar issues and should be grouped together."

Is it ok for RMS or you to interject a use of a term?

Everyday, I live the injustice that our courts have brought upon my 
family and ruined any intimate upbringing that families toutedly get to 
share. If you are one to even think I am subhuman or even think that I 
must of done something wrong to deserve all the years of lost time with 
my family -- think again. I have taken the issue to the people, in 
support groups, in counseling, in walks, but I am just one voice. I have 
been apart of the effort to attempt to bring fairness in family law to 
the ballot, but I have not much funds to buy signatures like others. I 
have been much much louder all over the net about the issue that are 
happening in our courts. You don't know until it happens to you. 
Blindsided by injustice and left to struggle to even try to have a bit 
of happiness as others share.

Perhaps -- no actually I do know -- it is just like RMS said as harmful 
confusion -- so I ask to respect the words 'parent' and 'child' because 
maybe I value something that has been taken away from me... and somehow 
trying to find hope and a solution.

I don't need pity. Until the injustice is over, I will say my peace to 
make sure it is known what is happening. I'm sure people want their 
everyday happiness and go on like their is no problem, but this is an 
issue that grows and grows and grows. What do you expect me to do? Say 
nothing? Do nothing?  Everyday is a day I could have been with my kids. 
It is not easy to stay calm and fake a smile when I see so many god damn 
opportunities that people could do to make a difference. I point them 
out and make sure it is known.

People believe there is a war going on. Why is it so hard to believe 
that our court system is not frakin perfect! What stupid mind think the 
war is isolated just to iraq and iraqians? You know how many excuses 
I've heard to try to justify reasons for the war?  You know how many 
excuses I've heard to try to justify the reasons for my kids being taken 

All those missing pictures you see on milk cartons and such, do you call 
those people trolls? My motive is similar, my kids are stolen and people 
tried to justify it legally... the simple fact remians that they have 
been taken away from me and not a single judge can find any evidence of 
wrongdoing on my part.  It's like the war... how does it stop?

When does the harm stop?

It might happen to you. I care.

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