[JIRA] Issue Comment Edited: (VWR-16227) Make sims nearly twice as large.

Adeon Writer (JIRA) no-reply at lindenlab.cascadeo.com
Sat Nov 28 12:32:02 PST 2009

    [ http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-16227?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=149268#action_149268 ] 

Adeon Writer edited comment on VWR-16227 at 11/28/09 12:30 PM:

As someone who is 5'8" in real life, and also has an (according to Emerald) 5'8" avatar, and has been ejected from a sim by an automated script for being "too short" I strongly encourage SL's problems with scale to be dealt with. :P

But scaling down avatars is a big no-no. Scaling down an avatar means the attachments stay the same. This. Breaks. _Everything_. I'm not sure if you meant this or not, but just in case... that's a nonstarter.

Showing true avatar height in the editor would be a great idea, though.

      was (Author: Adeon Writer):
    As someone who is 5'8" in real life, and also has an (according to Emerald) 5'8" avatar, and has been ejected from a sim by an automated script for being "too short" I strongly encourage SL's problems with scale to be dealt with. :P
> Make sims nearly twice as large.
> --------------------------------
>                 Key: VWR-16227
>                 URL: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-16227
>             Project: 1. Second Life Viewer - VWR
>          Issue Type: New Feature
>          Components: Avatar/Character
>         Environment: Double sized.
>            Reporter: Penny Patton
>            Priority: Major
>  Some simple math.
>  Without resorting to megaprims a 10x10m room requires 3 prims if you go absolutely bare bones. On prim for the floor, one for the ceiling, and one for the walls. Cut the wall prim right and you even have a door. Heck, you can cut a prim out by making the floor and ceiling one prim, cut and hollowed. So a 10x10m room requires 2 prims.
>  Scale that same room up to 20x20m, again without resorting to megaprims. Your bare bones room now requires 14 prims. That's a pretty big jump, isn't it? Do you see what I'm getting at, here?
>  SL has four issues which have lead to everything in SL, from noobie homes erected in sandboxes and on other people's lawns, to some of the best builds in the SL showcase (Yes, even most of those could easily be made much larger, better, and more detailed) being built at pretty much double scale.
>  First, the default avatars.
>  The default avatars are between about 6' and 8' tall. That's right, the shortest female avatar is what is considered slightly above average height for a man. The tallest default SL avatar should come with leg braces because his legs could not realistically carry his weight.
>  Second, the avatar editor in the official viewer does not give you any clue how tall your avatar is.
>  You can make avatars as tall as 8'10", almost 9' tall, without counting the hair mesh or prim attachments. The average avatar in SL appears to be between 7' and 8' tall. Avatars taller than 8' are not uncommon. Avatar's under 5'10" are almost unheard of. Even so-called "child avatars" tend to be in the 6' range.
>  Third, as some people are curious to know their avatar's height there are scripted height detectors. Most of these tell you what your AgentHeight attribute is. The problem? AgentHeight is not your avatar's height. The number it gives you is about a half a foot to a foot shorter than your actual height. People ignorant of this often uses these incorrect height detectors to police sims for "child avatars". Most such places require avatars be over 6' tall or they get banned and possibly ARed. This only encourages people to be taller.
>  The fourth issue is the camera placement. The camera in SL is very impractical, and pretty much requires 3-4m tall ceilings, minimum.
>  These are all pretty simple problems to solve, and the payoff is huge.
>  First, shrink down all the default avatars. This will probably be the most tedious and  time consuming part.
>  Second, add avatar height, in both english and metric measurements, to the avatar editor. Meerkat and Emerald did this a long time ago now. I'm sure they'd be happy to let you use their code for it. Doing this will also take care of the third problem, since everyone will see their height in the avatar editing window, and all new users will be to scale, it will only be a matter of time before AgentHeight based height detectors fade away,
>  Finally, move the camera to a better default position. Honestly, you'd be best off in just adding a preferences tab with a bunch of camera preset selections, so users can easily switch their default camera position on the fly. Maybe even let them create their own presets.
>  Once that's done, have the Linden content creation team start building to scale. Combined with the correctly scaled defaults, this will encourage everyone to build smaller, and make the most of the space they have. It won't be an overnight change, but it will happen. And the result, sims being effectively double sized, will be a pretty big deal. Sim crossings will be that much less of an issue. A single sim will appear to be much more space to drive around in smaller vehicles. Sims will look a whole lot nicer as people find themselves using fewer prims to build their houses and high rises.
>  Seriously. If you doubt this, try it for yourself. Find a floor plan to a simple apartment. Build two copies in SL. One to scale, and one to SL's average building size.  If you can build the same room in a fraction of the number of prims, then...well, you're pretty bad at building, to put it bluntly. Also, chances are your regular avatar won't fit through the front door of the properly scaled apartment. But scale that avatar down to a realistic size, and suddenly it's spacious!
>  Give it a shot. Worst case scenario, you've made things a whole lot easier for content creators. Best case scenario, SL eventually ceases to look like an early PSX game, and starts to look more like something on the Xbox 360, and people start buying more land because they learn they can do a lot more with it. Even a tiny 400 prim parcel is suddenly a lot to work with.

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