[SLED] Book Review - Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality

Panico, Roseanne rpanico at readington.k12.nj.us
Mon Mar 15 11:59:47 PDT 2010


@Jonathan…I think it depends upon whether you think of a person as just a being or if a person is a tangible body with a mystical soul.  If you think of a person as just a body, then I would agree with you and say that there is no difference between the robot and the person.  However, I believe that there is an essence of a person (a soul) so therefore the robot could never truly be me.  Good question!

Best,
Roseanne

From: educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com [mailto:educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Greenlee
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 2:54 PM
To: SL Educators (The SLED List)
Subject: Re: [SLED] Book Review - Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality


I want to perform the following thought experiment:



I have created in front of you a robot.  It is a perfected copy of your body, it contains a perfect copy of all of your memories, knowledge, beliefs, attitudes, preferences,and every other characteristic of your mind.  It processes these in the same way you think and produces the exact same behaviors you would produce to the same experiences.



As you observe the robot, is it "you" or are you "You"?



(P.S. - I am not arguing in favor of any supernatural thing making you "You".  There seems to be some impermanent natural thing in your location that determines what is "You".)
--- On Mon, 3/15/10, Giulio Prisco <gp1 at metafuturing.com> wrote:

From: Giulio Prisco <gp1 at metafuturing.com>
Subject: Re: [SLED] Book Review - Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
To: "SL Educators (The SLED List)" <educators at lists.secondlife.com>
Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 1:36 PM
Well.. I am afraid science cannot answer this question objectively
yet, and personal answers are determined by personal philosophical
preferences. My own preference is identifying [spirit = the
computational dynamical patterns in our brain]. Nothing beyond
computation, no "mystery", no "soul". From these assumption it follows
that mind uploading is feasible in principle once certain (difficult)
technical issues are solved, but of course your own assumptions may
differ.

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Panico, Roseanne
<rpanico at readington.k12.nj.us</mc/compose?to=rpanico at readington.k12.nj.us>> wrote:
> Can you separate the person from the spirit or are they one in the same?  Religion will of course play into this for some while others might disagree.  I am spiritual so maybe that taints my thinking.  Just something to think about.  While the idea of leaving a personal “footprint” is awesome (in the literal sense of the word) we also need to think of the repercussions with such discoveries.
>
>
>
> This thread has certainly got me to thinking today.  Thank you!
>
> Best,
>
> Roseanne
>
>
>
> From: educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com</mc/compose?to=educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com> [mailto:educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com</mc/compose?to=educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com>] On Behalf Of Frederic Emam-Zade
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 2:10 PM
> To: jonathangreenlee at yahoo.com</mc/compose?to=jonathangreenlee at yahoo.com>; SL Educators (The SLED List)
>
> Subject: Re: [SLED] Book Review - Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
>
>
>
> I can imagine discussions like this one, taking place several centuries back, when someone might have proposed that voices or images could be somehow recorded, not in books or paintings, but in a machine...
>
>
>
> I also remember one time, several years ago, when traveling deep in a rural area of Guatemala, I decided to take a picture of two "indigenous" youngsters, who had never been photographed before, and how they thought I had captured their "spirit" inside that machine and how on of them asked me to please release it.
>
>
>
> Technologies such as fMRI and others are just starting to provide glimpses into what goes on inside our brain and these technologies could perfectly evolve and/or derivate into some new media that could help us record our memories or thoughts and even help us share and communicate these among ourselves. But in no case would we be uploading ourselves  into a machine, just certain thoughts or memories, because not even our brain retains for long our thoughts or memories.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 15, 2010, at 1:21 PM, Jonathan Greenlee wrote:
>
> It will take a magic wand rather than a faster-broader computer to upload "you" into a computer.
>
> When you upload a book into a computer you either scan it or have a typist read the book and type the same words in.  You have a representation of the words of the book in the computer and you STILL HAVE the book sitting on the scanner or in the typist's hand.  The book does not enter the computer.
>
> When I created Expert Systems for medical diagnosis I interviewed world-class diagnosticians and created models of their thoughts, beliefs, values, and decision strategies which I translated into program logic and tables to be searched.  But no part of the Doctors ever left their bodies and entered the computers.
>
> The Science Fiction Fantasy of leaving your body and entering an immortal robot body is a fun fantasy but nothing more.  You can create a representation of your thoughts, beliefs, memories, and attitudes - but it is not "You".
>
>
>
> Thank "YOU" for your kind attention
>
> --- On Mon, 3/15/10, slhi <slhi at mail.rochester.edu</mc/compose?to=slhi at mail.rochester.edu>> wrote:
>
> From: slhi <slhi at mail.rochester.edu</mc/compose?to=slhi at mail.rochester.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [SLED] Book Review - Apocalyptic AI: Visions of Heaven in Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Virtual Reality
> To: iggyono at gmail.com</mc/compose?to=iggyono at gmail.com>, "Frederic Emam-Zade" <femamzade at me.com</mc/compose?to=femamzade at me.com>>
> Cc: "SL Educators (The SLED List)" <educators at lists.secondlife.com</mc/compose?to=educators at lists.secondlife.com>>
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 10:43 AM
>
> Seconded, Iggy!  Okay now: I've dreamed of having an android body and the
> removal of death--what a boon it would be for the severely handicapped; I do
> fear dwindling cognitive and physical abilities, and see more years piling up
> behind me than ahead.  Should this technology be available to me, now, I'm not
> sure what I would do, so I think I also agree with Roseanne.  I am not averse to
> cybernetics.  I would welcome fixing my body and prolonging my life. But
> uploading my brain to a "computer"?  What might be lost?  I might have better
> memory, but what might I forget? What passions could be muted? What about sexual
> desire and fulfillment? What if I cease to dream at night? Rejuvenate my flesh
> and my brain. Enhancements, terrific! But complete replacement?
>
> Perhaps that image of metal electronic circuits gets in the way of imagining a
> "wet" interface. (Too much outdated sf.) So yes, Giulio. But I think we are a
> long way from that, despite the argument about "exponential" technical growth.
> I really don't think this is going to happen in the twenties.  If it does, my
> surmise is that it will only be available to the privileged.
>
> I take back my remark about my "rhetorical" voice, Giulio.  I reread my message
> and I DO have real fears about being trapped in a bottle.  But you snipped about
> three paragraphs of that, so I wasn't reminded. ;) Pace...
>
> Yes, this is fascinating.
> Sarah
>
>
> > What a fascinating discussion. I'll look forward to the materials
> > about transhumanism that have been supplied on this thread.
> >
> > To those longing for the upload: I support your right to do so. If it
> > happens in my lifetime, I'll be retired on the farm, growing food for
> > those who still need their flesh, and hoping the dire situation does
> > not get to grim as oil supplies deplete.
> >
> > Let me know when you have an android body with all five senses, plus
> > the upload capacity. That might be interesting...but no flesh, no fun
> > for me :)
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Frederic Emam-Zade <femamzade at me.com</mc/compose?to=femamzade at me.com>> wrote:
> >  (2) Future user interfaces, such as augmented reality, virtual
> > > reality. virtual worlds, blended reality, virtual agents, bots, lifelogging,
> > > breakthroughs in computer graphics, holographic and 3D displays,
> > > teleimmersion, telepresence, haptic interfaces, personalized learning, and
> > > extracting knowledge from massive volumes of data via data analysis, data
> > > mining, and information visualization:
> > > you can see our curriculum here:
> > > http://singularityu.org/programs/curriculum/
> > > and some videos of our lectures and classes here:
> > > http://www.youtube.com/singularityu
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Joe Essid, University of Richmond Rhetoric & Communication Studies
> >
> > Iggy Strangeland: Reaction Grid
> > Iggyo Heritage: Heritage Key
> > Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Second Life
> >
> > blog: http://iggyo.blogspot.com
> > Web: http://virtualworldsedu.info/
> >
>
> Professor of English
> University of Rochester
> Rochester, NY 14627
> slhi @ mail dot rochester dot edu
> Py dydwc glein o erddygnawt vein?
> "What brings a gem from a hard stone? (Book of Taliesin)
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--
Giulio Prisco
gp at metafuturing.com</mc/compose?to=gp at metafuturing.com> (remove 1)
http://metafuturing.com/
(39)3387219799
giulioprisco @ skype
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