[SLED] Voice in Second Life

Fernando Barrio f.barrio at londonmet.ac.uk
Fri Aug 3 15:06:32 PDT 2007


Thank you Eloise. Before anything, I promise to circulate the paper I am
writing to address the issues presented by my university, which are mainly
ownership.
As I assume many here have encountered or thought about the same issue,
the assignment to IP that the ToS do, does not seem to be consistent with
other parts of the ToS, which I wouldn't care as personal user but the
university is concerned about. For example issues like art 3.2 of the
Terms of Service where you grant a license to the owner of the platform to
do many things with your creation and also contradicts section 3.3 that
reads “Linden Lab retains ownership of the account and related data”. Does
that mean the data inside the courses, that in principle belong to the
university; and does that refer also to the student created content that,
in principle, belongs to them?
I have to answer those questions before getting the university committed,
and, in principle, the assignment of IP rights is not real. Linden Labs
still own everything in your island. And then, if we have a problem, where
do we resolve the matter? The relevance of the gambling ban to this list
is that by doing that Linden Labs effectively said that US law applies to
every user, which in this case would be a state-owned British university.
So, a lot to write in my paper and a lot to explain to who sign the check
here...



> This list covers the purely educational as well as the more personal.
> It's much more like a coffee lounge than a single focus list.
>
> If you have specific teaching issues, please raise them and you'll
> doubtless get 1,001 replies!
>
> To answer your specific question - the normal TOS apply to all.
> They're not very restrictive, just about every university I've
> attended to work at or learn at has MORE stringent requirements than
> the TOS.
>
> If you buy an island for yourself, you can, in addition, have a
> covenant, which is extra rules of behaviour. This could be your
> institutional code of conduct, or something very different. For
> example, many Gorean islands use their covenant to enforce their
> laws, even though they're VERY different to any educational
> institution I've seen.
>
> If you rent land on another person's island you will have to live by
> their covenant. If you own land on the mainland there is no covenant.
> However, you can, and people successfully do, say that, during class
> time you expect a certain standard of behaviour. You can easily expel
> those that refuse to comply, and even on a mainland parcel easily set
> access to group only, permanently or for class time only, so that
> only your students get in.
>
> El.
>
> On 3 Aug 2007, at 22:25, Fernando Barrio wrote:
>
>> Ed,
>> That is what I thought. But my question was whether there is a list
>> were
>> education issues are discussed. While I do understand that
>> educators have
>> different interests it seemed to me that the discussions going on,
>> very
>> interesting and engaging, were not related to educational issues at
>> all
>> (as well as the one about business models, of which actually I am
>> researching about now, but I think that there is a different list for
>> research on SL). So, your answer seems to imply that this list is
>> about
>> issues of interest to educators (from academics to their pets) and not
>> only about education, which would answer my question.
>> Finally, after sending a couple of emails to the people of Linden
>> Labs I
>> did posted a question to the list a couple of days ago (or
>> yesterday), but
>> it seems that nobody has dealt with that.
>>
>> "Hello,
>>
>> I've just joined and I have been going around old posts, without any
>> luck, looking for whether educational institutions using SL get
>> tailored
>> and negotiated Terms of Service or the usual terms applicable to all
>> residents apply (or if the are Terms of Service that are standard but
>> specific to educational institutions).
>> Does anyone have any experience with this?
>>
>> Thank you."
>>
>>
>> Again, thank you.
>>
>> Fernando
>>
>>
>>> fernando.
>>> many of us DO teach "real" classes for "real" universities
>>> for example, I teach qualitative research methods (ethnography) to
>>> undergrads.. a for credit course at Bradley
>>> http://slane.bradley.edu/com/faculty/lamoureux/website2/slstuff.html
>>>
>>> there are hundreds of educators on the list though.... with a diverse
>>> range of interests
>>> k-college and beyond
>>> builders, coders, content folks, creatives
>>> etc
>>>
>>> but if you post specific issues, you'll get responses.
>>>
>>> as for "role" playing.... one can't use one's own name in SL.... and
>>> an avatar represents you... so there is always some degree of
>>> representationalism.
>>>
>>> but many of us use it for a wide range of "real" stuff
>>>
>>> On Aug 3, 2007, at 3:41 PM, Fernando Barrio wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry to disturb, but I think that I am in the wrong list. Is there
>>>> any
>>>> list where the issues of educators trying or planning to use SL for
>>>> real
>>>> classes are discussed?
>>>> In my case I work for a real institution that has real students who
>>>> could
>>>> use SL to get a real degree, so I can't and I wouldn't conceal my
>>>> identity
>>>> (neither I think that the accreditation organizations would be
>>>> happy with
>>>> students getting degrees in that form, at least in law). The
>>>> issues of
>>>> politeness and security, as presented, are not also a problem
>>>> because my
>>>> students have to polite in my classes (when I teach freedom of
>>>> expression
>>>> they use words used to swear but only as part of sentences with
>>>> academic
>>>> meaning) and I wouldn't have a class while in an airport lobby (for
>>>> me the
>>>> use of SL is supposed to allow my students to attend classes
>>>> wherever they
>>>> are, not me teaching from wherever I am, and while I could be using
>>>> voice,
>>>> the option of replying by text I assume that also exist). Still I
>>>> think
>>>> that the use of voice depends in each class and topic. But it seems
>>>> that
>>>> most of the concerns raised, even those under the "security" label,
>>>> related to role-playing and no education (as per education in RL).
>>>> So, while I agree and I could even share some of the concerns
>>>> expressed,
>>>> is there any place to have the sort of education-related discussion
>>>> that I
>>>> am asking for?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Fernando
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I agree, Jim. My personal concerns about voice don't have much to
>>>>> do with
>>>>> role play, except that I'm vain enough that I want to maintain the
>>>>> fiction
>>>>> that I'm actually 35 years old instead of over 60. ;-)  Much of
>>>>> the time
>>>>> when I am in SL, I am not in a place where I can babble away on a
>>>>> microphone
>>>>> without either disturbing other people or compromising my RL
>>>>> identity,
>>>>> which
>>>>> I am fairly careful about concealing.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have other practical concerns, most of which have to do with
>>>>> trying to
>>>>> follow multiple simultaneous conversations without the benefit of
>>>>> a chat
>>>>> history, but I can deal with those (I think). I've spent my life
>>>>> in RL,
>>>>> and
>>>>> almost learned how to deal with it there, anyway. I don't see an
>>>>> easy way
>>>>> to
>>>>> beat the "speaking in public" problem, though, except to keep my
>>>>> mouth
>>>>> shut.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rolig Loon
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com
>>>>> [mailto:educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Jim
>>>>> Daugherty
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:24 PM
>>>>> To: lhavenst at oznet.ksu.edu; 'SL Educators'
>>>>> Subject: RE: [SLED] Voice in Second Life
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry Good point on the security aspect.  Additionally, there are
>>>>> other
>>>>> times in rl when conversing out loud in sl is simply not
>>>>> appropriate.  For
>>>>> example, while watching television with my family I can easily
>>>>> maintain a
>>>>> chat or IM conversation without disturbing them, but a voice
>>>>> conversation
>>>>> would be quite distracting.  The same might be true while sitting
>>>>> in an
>>>>> airport lobby or other public location.
>>>>>
>>>>> And not to burst any bubbles but effective and inexpensive voice
>>>>> morphing
>>>>> software exists that can change the speaker's voice gender and
>>>>> change
>>>>> other
>>>>> attributes of the speakers voice on the fly with a delay of only 2
>>>>> or 3
>>>>> seconds.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com
>>>>> [mailto:educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Larry
>>>>> Havenstein
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:02 AM
>>>>> To: SL Educators
>>>>> Subject: Re: [SLED] Voice in Second Life
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3 Aug 2007 at 9:47, Giulio Prisco wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Understandably, there are some users of Second Life who, for many
>>>>>> reasons, prefer not to use voice. Most of them are primarily
>>>>>> interested in Second Life as a role playing game (I am not
>>>>>> going to
>>>>>> expand on that because I believe the reasons why they do not
>>>>>> want to
>>>>>> use voice are their own business). Some of them feel that the
>>>>>> integration of voice in Second Life will gradually lead to
>>>>>> discrimination against them. This is, I think, true in a certain
>>>>>> sense: role players will tend to congregate in "role playing sims"
>>>>>> where voice is disabled, and I am sure there will be plenty of sim
>>>>>> owners who will choose to disable voice and cater to role
>>>>>> players. At
>>>>>> the same time, role players will certainly miss much of the
>>>>>> educational and business action.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most who have expressed concern to me about Voice in Second Life
>>>>> had
>>>>> nothing
>>>>> to do with Roleplay.
>>>>> I have been given two major reasons so far, one being security and
>>>>> the
>>>>> other
>>>>> being the fact that many are not
>>>>> polite when speaking.  The politeness issue is a big one if you
>>>>> have
>>>>> children in the house that could over hear
>>>>> the discussions.   Let me give examples of the Security aspect
>>>>> as its
>>>>> something we all need to consider.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many in any online environment do want to keep their names
>>>>> private.  Many
>>>>> women do this to prevent others
>>>>> from stalking them.  I know several instances of women who have
>>>>> been
>>>>> stalked
>>>>> because someone else in there
>>>>> residence walked up to them and said their name during a time the
>>>>> lady was
>>>>> on voice conferancing.  In one
>>>>> case it was a case of an answering machine going off with the
>>>>> announcement
>>>>> and that going out over the voice
>>>>> conference.   In these cases the voice conferancing was used as a
>>>>> guild
>>>>> wide
>>>>> method of communications to
>>>>> help in coordination of an online game.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway the security issue is probably the biggest one of concern.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  <Larry>++
>>>>>
>>>>>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>  Larry Havenstein
>>>>>   System Engineer & Technical Support Manager
>>>>>   Information & Educational Technology
>>>>>   Department of Communications
>>>>>   K-State Research & Extension
>>>>>   Kansas State University
>>>>>    (785) 532-6270
>>>>>
>>>>>   Lhavenst at oznet.ksu.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Fernando J. Barrio, Ph.D.
>>>>
>>>> Senior Lecturer in Business Law
>>>> Programme Leader MA E-Business Regulation
>>>> Department of Business and Service Sector Management
>>>> London Metropolitan University
>>>>
>>>> +44-(0)20-7133-3153
>>>> http://electromate.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Educators mailing list
>>>> To unsubscribe
>>>> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
>>>
>>> Edward Lee Lamoureux, Ph. D.
>>> Associate Professor, Multimedia Program
>>> and Department of Communication
>>> Co-Director, New Media Center
>>> 1501 W. Bradley
>>> Bradley University
>>> Peoria IL  61625
>>> 309-677-2378
>>> <http://slane.bradley.edu/com/faculty/lamoureux/website2/index.html>
>>> <http://gcc.bradley.edu/mm/>
>>> AIM/IM & skype: dredleelam
>>> Second Life: Professor Beliveau
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Educators mailing list
>>> To unsubscribe
>>> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Fernando J. Barrio, Ph.D.
>>
>> Senior Lecturer in Business Law
>> Programme Leader MA E-Business Regulation
>> Department of Business and Service Sector Management
>> London Metropolitan University
>>
>> +44-(0)20-7133-3153
>> http://electromate.blogspot.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Educators mailing list
>> To unsubscribe
>> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
>
> _______________________________________________
> Educators mailing list
> To unsubscribe
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>
>


--
Fernando J. Barrio, Ph.D.

Senior Lecturer in Business Law
Programme Leader MA E-Business Regulation
Department of Business and Service Sector Management
London Metropolitan University

+44-(0)20-7133-3153
http://electromate.blogspot.com



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