[SLED] Hello, physics, classes and project management part 2

Chris Hambly chambly at gmail.com
Sat Nov 25 00:43:12 PST 2006


Pete

Thanks for that insight, I also struggle in some areas making very real
tasks real in SL. We do audio production, and whilst we can cover the theory
of sound in SL, well the practical side is not really doable yet due to
bandwidth limitations and short 9 sec loops, although the dopler effect
ain't half bad.

I'd be interested though to see what you do with the physics side as of
course theory of sound is plain old physics and I'm looking to include more
models of this in SL, you know perhaps a sine wave ride, or a bounce around
the room simulation of a sound wave with dying energy etc. Also some
electronics simulations would be neat.

Chris

SL:Audio Zenith

On 11/25/06, Pete Border <border at mail.physics.umn.edu> wrote:
>
> (oops, the second half of this post didn't make it into the first one
> somehow)
>
> All this doesn't mean that I'm comfortable with doing mechanics labs in
> SL. Qualitative accuracy really isn't very important to a physics lab,
> but quantitative consistency is. If the text says that a ball rolls down
> a ramp faster than a pipe with the same diameter, it better work that
> way in lab too, or there will be hell to pay (and it didn't in SL the
> last time I tried it). Torques better balance, wheels better turn, and
> the bullet has to hit the monkey if they let go at the same time. And a
> lot of that kind of thing does NOT work right in SL.
>
> So I don't think I would do labs in SL either. I have an online freshman
> mechanics class now, and we do use some simulations (not in SL) in the
> labs, but only as aids to understanding some real, physical labs that
> people do in their kitchens with a lab kit we make them buy. This
> approach seems to work pretty well- there's definite value in making
> students do something with their hands, using things they can actually
> pick up and look at, that you just cant get with a simulation. Hands-on
> learning makes sense to people, and making them do labs with physical
> things makes them think of the concepts in different ways. it's worth
> the bother, even though it doesn't make of a difference on the usual
> tests (and I really dont want to start talking about the usual tests.
> You dont want me to start on them either.).
>
> Our simulations are used to understand effects students can't get at in
> the actual experiments. In sim, for example, you can turn up air
> resistance to ridiculous levels and see what it does. Try doing that in
> a real lab! Or make friction go away, and see what that does. If nothing
> else, you can do exactly the same thing several times and get a really
> good look at it. Our sims are carefully built so students see the same
> experiment three ways at the same time- they see a 3d view, a graph, and
> a table of data, all of which are added to at the same rate. This really
> helps them understand how the graph represents the motion and how the
> tabled data represents time-slices. They help with understanding, but
> the students still need to do the hands-on experiment too.
>
> Another nice trick is to be vague with the instructions. In a normal lab
> this doesn't do much (TAs will always step in to "help" and make sure
> the students do the "right" thing, no matter how many times you tell
> them to let the studnts figure it out). Online is a different world-
> students have my golden words and their knowledge of the the subject to
> figure out a reasonable experiment with. They do have to think about it
> to get anywhere; which is the whole point.
>
> But there's a lot of physics that is basically descriptive, and that
> would work beautifully in SL. Imagine a class making the "SL museum of
> quantum mechanics", with rooms for the Bohr atom, wave-functions,
> duality, uncertainty, QED and so forth. What a great project! You can
> build whatever you want, and with the right scripting, it can be as
> animated as you need. And it's almost free!
>
>                                                             Cool stuff!
>
> Pete Border
> Pete Border wrote:
> > I actually am a physicist who uses SL for teaching, and yes, you are
> > correct that the SL engine is not at all accurate. SL physics is
> > basically good enough for soccer games, but not for anything much more
> > than that. Add in all the problems with lag and frame rates and the
> > situation gets even worse. You can make scripts that will do their own
> > physics for you, but scripts are not very reliable either. So, yes, SL
> > is not the place to go for accurate physics.
> >
> > OTOH, this is much less of a concern than you might think.  Freshman
> > lab data is usually pretty bad anyway, even if it's taken in real labs
> > (which have perfect physics simulation, by definition). It's amazing
> > how often freshmen are unable to use stopwatches, mismeasure
> > distances, can't use balances, copy down digits wrong, mistype on
> > calculators etc, etc, etc. And freshman physics experiments can be
> > very touchy- I do a lot of demos in my class, and, even though the
> > demo apparatus is maintained and I know what I'm doing, I'm lucky if I
> > get 75% of them turning out right.  Doing these experiments right is
> > hard and takes a lot more time than is available in a
> > "chapter-a-week" class. So it's not like SL is competing against real
> > high quality data. Answers turn out wrong in the real labs all the
> > time anyway, and we still keep using those.
> >
> > And I think in the end it really doesn't matter. What I want my class
> > to learn is how to do physics analysis, not how to accurately measure
> > that g=9.8 m/s/s. If they can take a lab with crummy data and come up
> > with some reasonable ideas for why their data is so crummy, that's
> > vastly better than doing it right in the first place. It would prove
> > that they have actually thought about what they are trying to do,
> > instead of fussing over micrometers or some such nonsense.  The whole
> > point of doing a lab is get these abstract notions out of the textbook
> > and into some other region, where students have to manipulate the same
> > concepts in a different way, and if their numbers turn out not to be
> > particularly accurate, well what of it? Taking accurate measurements
> > is not what we're teaching at the freshman level anyway. It's vastly
> > more important they earn to understand and manipulate the concepts of
> > mechanics than to get the right number on their lab report.
> >
> >                                                         Hiho;
> >                                                             Pete Border
> > Walter Milner wrote:
> >> Firstly, about me (!) My job title is Lecturer in Computing and IT, at
> >> the University of Birmingham in the UK. I'm also a mature (old) PT PhD
> >> student, working on how novice programmers develop concepts when
> >> learning OOP in Java. So hello.
> >>
> >> Secondly about physics and 'physics', the quoted version being the
> >> physics engine in SL. I'm a bit concerned about the use of this for
> >> simulations about physics, given the very significant differences
> >> between the physics engine and how RL physics (well, classical
> >> mechanics) works. I'm also uneasy about students doing virtual
> >> experiments instead of RL ones - I know they are faster cheaper safer
> >> simpler etc, but I worry that we're losing the plot. Bring back
> Galileo.
> >>
> >>
> >> About "classes". I'd like to know how ppl are designing educational
> >> experiences in SL. Like - what you do. I'd like to experience a class
> as
> >> a student - how can I enrol in one? Anyone running a class I can join?
> >>
> >> Project management - in RL I'm teaching a class in introductory Project
> >> Management from January, and I'm toying with the idea of running a
> >> parallel class in SL. How would I advertise such a thing? The SL class
> >> would be open enrolment, free, limited to 20 participants. Any
> >> suggestions?
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com
> >> [mailto:educators-bounces at lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of
> >> educators-request at lists.secondlife.com
> >> Sent: 22 November 2006 20:00
> >> To: educators at lists.secondlife.com
> >> Subject: Educators Digest, Vol 179, Issue 2
> >>
> >> Send Educators mailing list submissions to
> >>     educators at lists.secondlife.com
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>     https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>     educators-request at lists.secondlife.com
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>     educators-owner at lists.secondlife.com
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than
> >> "Re: Contents of Educators digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>    1. Re: Need Help for Internet2 Conference Presentation
> >>       (Jonas Karlsson)
> >>    2. Jana introduction (Andree Robinson-Neal)
> >>    3. Re: Introducing myself from Spain (Patio Plasma)
> >>    4. Launch of secondlifespain (Giulio Prisco)
> >>    5. Hello! (Judy Smith)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:37:33 -0500
> >> From: "Jonas Karlsson" <thejonas at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [SLED] Need Help for Internet2 Conference Presentation
> >> To: "SL Educators" <educators at lists.secondlife.com>
> >> Message-ID:
> >>     <fc3d095b0611220537t681ae04fg7da81713eb47ab61 at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>
> >> On 11/22/06, Pietro Maracas <pietro.maracas at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> If you can help, please let me know (off-line) in advance.  On
> >>> Tuesday, December 5th, plan to show up at Pietro's Place (Yora 70,
> >>> 150) on the beach around 7:00 am (game time). It would be great to see
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>> people flying, chatting, dancing, etc, as well as showing off their
> >>> customized avatars and other creations. Please contact Pietro
> >>> Maracas or Professor Kaos if you need a TP to this location.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'll be there, representing the Kuurian Expedition!  Have nothing cool
> >> to demo other than what others have created (steamers ice skates, scion
> >> xb, etc..) though
> >>
> >> _jonas
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:17:06 -0500
> >> From: "Andree Robinson-Neal" <arobinson.neal at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: [SLED] Jana introduction
> >> To: Educators at lists.secondlife.com
> >> Message-ID:
> >>     <2186d180611220617oeeceaacr8e5f211e65fb8ca9 at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> Hello, Jana:
> >>
> >> I hear you re: "stumbling your way around"...I took an extended period
> >> standing in strange places to edit my appearance.  Fortunately that
> >> little message appears over your head so folks know you aren't asleep
> at
> >> your keyboard or something.
> >> Community College Leadership, eh?  I too am a doctoral student
> >> (Educational Leadership & Change, Community College concentration).
> >> Feel free to look me up sometime!
> >>
> >> RW:  Andree'
> >> SL:  LQimani Revolution
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:09:22 -0800
> >> From: Patio Plasma <patioplasma at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [SLED] Introducing myself from Spain
> >> To: SL Educators <educators at lists.secondlife.com>
> >> Message-ID: <850F9718-11FE-4382-876E-69462AF7380A at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Hola Fernando
> >>
> >> Come visit the Splo Museum in Midnight City.
> >>
> >> We have a couple of physics simulations there: A gravity Well, and a
> >> coriolis fountain among others.
> >>
> >> Midnight City 176,60,26
> >>
> >> Patio Plasma
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 22, 2006, at 1:41 AM, Fernando Ariznavarreta Fdez. wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi all:
> >>> I joined SL and SLED recently, a few days ago.
> >>>
> >>> I am a Professor and researcher in the University of Oviedo, Spain.
> >>> My field of expertized is Geotechnical Engineering and Soil and Rock
> >>> Mechanics.
> >>>
> >>> I am mining Engineer.
> >>>
> >>> It was some time ago that I had the idea of developing a virtual 3D
> >>> laboratory of soil mechanics to help my students in their practices.
> >>> Normal tests in this field are very long in time and it is difficult
> >>> to teach students how it works in an hour you have. You cannot do a
> >>> complete test. Besides, machines are expensive and there is just one
> >>> of each test, so students cannot manipulate them (its complexity and
> >>> cost disuades you from letting them do that).
> >>>
> >>> But I hadn't found appropiate software to do that and developing it
> >>> from scratch (using a 3D library like OpenGL) would be too time
> >>> consuming.
> >>>
> >>> I met SL by casuality, and I got excited when I found that you could
> >>> manipulate objects and program its behavior. I thought it was the
> >>> perfect environment to develop my project (with the aid of some
> >>> students and programmers, of course).
> >>>
> >>> Then i discovered that there was an educational community here
> >>> reseaching the applications of 3D multiuser inmersive virtual worlds
> >>> (metaverses) to Education, and I could do nothing but joined it ;-)
> >>>
> >>> I don't want to begin my project yet (you have just 6 months to
> >>> develope a free project).
> >>> First I would like to learn more about SL and its possibilities,
> >>> what other people is doing, etc.
> >>>
> >>> But it is not easy to find educational projects on your own.
> >>> I have read about Meteroa (NOAA's simulator of tsnamis, hurricanes and
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>> alikes). It seems a very interesting project, related with the kind of
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>> sim i would like to develope - indeed it superceeds my
> >>> expectatives- so I am very interested in visiting their island. But
> >>> I couldn't, when I tried to teleport, it tells me it is not a valid
> >>> parcel. Unluckly it seems to be private.
> >>>
> >>> Do you know or have heard of other educational projects that use SL as
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>> a simulator of RL processes?
> >>>
> >>> Is there a Spanish comunity of Educators here?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks to all and sorry for this long introducing message.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Fernando Ariznavarreta (Lionel Forager) University of Oviedo (Spain)
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Educators mailing list
> >>> To unsubscribe
> >>> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:17:25 +0100
> >> From: "Giulio Prisco" <gp at uvvy.com>
> >> Subject: [SLED] Launch of secondlifespain
> >> To: uvvyblogpost at googlegroups.com,    "SL Educators"
> >>     <educators at lists.secondlife.com>,    "Public list for
> >> developers,    clients
> >>     and prospective partners interested in discussing commercial
> >>     applications of SL" <slbusiness at lists.secondlife.com>
> >> Message-ID:
> >>     <e68fc1100611221017q289fd9e1u935e92c7da4214ad at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> A Spanish collective of SL users has launched
> >> secondlifespain<http://uvvy.com/index.php/Secondlifespain>.
> >> secondlifespain.com is a community of Spanish speakers in Spain and
> >> other
> >> countries who wish to meet each other, help each other and exchange
> >> information to learn and advance in the complex synthetic world of
> >> Second
> >> Life. The members of secondlifespain.com believe that Second Life will
> >> become, in time, one of the most popular social and business-oriented
> >> synthetic worlds. Shortly after the launch the community has already
> >> more
> >> than 800 members.
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> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:35:24 -0500
> >> From: "Judy Smith" <jSmith at efcts.us>
> >> Subject: [SLED] Hello!
> >> To: <Educators at lists.secondlife.com>
> >> Message-ID: <s5646038.095 at mail.efcts.us>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Hello everyone! I am a secondary school administrator interested in
> >> learning more about using SL to create online courses and other
> creative
> >> and challenging work for our students.
> >> Any ideas or suggested resources are welcome!
> >>
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> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Educators mailing list
> >> Educators at lists.secondlife.com
> >> https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
> >>
> >> End of Educators Digest, Vol 179, Issue 2
> >> *****************************************
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> >
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